Steven, thank you so much for spending this time with us today.

Thank you for this opportunity to express my ideas about my research and share the information in my books.

Your work centres around the Great Pyramid. Particularly how and why it was built. But what spurred your interest in the Great Pyramid and when did you start to think that the official line of Egyptologists was incorrect?

With an interest in both technology and history, I have read the books about pyramids written by Egyptologists.  At first, it seemed reasonable to believe what these college educated people continue to say and write about the Great Pyramid.   It seems that all Traditional Egyptologists contend many massive stones were dragged up some sort of massive ramp and that extremely precise stone cutting was accomplished using simple hand tools.  At first, I thought that seems reasonable.  For me, as a researcher, the next logical step in validating what Egyptologists say is to examine the demonstrations provided by Egyptologists to substantiate their claims.  I learned something that Egyptologists will never tell you.  There are no demonstrations.  Egyptology has never demonstrated in a valid way the movement of a single payload the weight of a casing stone which weighs about 15 tons. They have never moved, in a convincing demonstration, a stone weighing 15 tons!

Many of the stones came from quarries across the river.  Egyptology has never moved a full sized payload the weight of a casing stone on or off a barge.  The science of Egyptology has never moved a heavy stone around the corner of a spiral ramp.   Egyptology has never moved the weight of the largest stones weighing as much as 70 tons the distance of one inch!  Egyptology has never made a single casing stone in the manner they say it was done.  They have never even made a single surface of a casing stone to demonstrate their ideas because using hand tools to create large scale precision stone cutting  is impossible.  Egyptology is the only science that abhors the Scientific Method!  This is incredible!!  I think that the reason Egyptology has not, and will not provide demonstrations is because the methods they say stones were cut, moved and set in place to build the Great Pyramid is impossible to demonstrate.

You make a very interesting claim about how the Great Pyramid was built. Your idea is that instead of the traditional view of Egyptologists that the stones were moved into place using log rollers and ramps you say that they were moved into place using water ways to and around the Great Pyramid as well as a series of locks to move the stones up onto each new course. Can you tell us more about how they did this as well as what evidence there is to support your claim?

You ask about evidence.  Everyone has the same direct physical evidence on the Giza Plateau to consider and evaluate.  Different researchers have different and often conflicting interpretations of the exact same evidence. I contend that there is a profound link between water and the Great Pyramid.  There is quite a bit of evidence indicating water had a fundamental role in the construction and purpose of the Great Pyramid. Sir Flanders Petrie wrote about “Nile Earth” or sediment inside the Great Pyramid.  There were a number of pivoting stones and moveable stones that could slide in slots inside the Great Pyramid that I contend were the moving parts of check valves.  The few remaining casing stones of the Great Pyramid are bonded together with an extremely strong bonding agent.  These joints are water tight!  The 5th century historian Herodotus described the Great Pyramid as being like an island surrounded by water.  There was a wall around the Great Pyramid that impounded water creating what looked like a square lake.  The Great Pyramid was like an island in that lake.

I contend that there was a series of water locks from the Nile river up to the building site which connected to the wall around the building site.  This allowed stones on barges to move up from the Nile river all the way to the building site and into the lake impounded by that wall.  The stones were moved and set in place level by level including the casing stones.  Sir Flanders Petrie wrote that the casing stones were set in place for a level and then the interior stones for that level were sent in place completing that level.  Then the next higher level was set in place, first the casing stones for that level and then the interior stones for that level. There is a video series that shows the process of assembling the Great Pyramid using water locks and barges at: http://www.thepump.org/video-series-2 Also my first book titled: Lost Technologies of the Great Pyramid provided a highly detailed description of how the Great Pyramid was built using water locks and barges.  http://www.amazon.com/dp/1449916155/

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And what about the time scale for building the Great Pyramid, do you think the water lock method would have seen the structure completed sooner than the 20 years suggested by mainstream Egyptology?

Yes!  Water locks are the system of choice to quickly move our heaviest objects in the 21st century!  The Panama canal has been updated with much larger water locks.  In ancient times, water locks were also the high-tech system of choice to move the massive stones of the Great Pyramid.  In the 1830’s the Erie Canal was built.  It was originally 4 1/2 feet deep and the barges had a capacity to carry the weight of 70 tons.  Before the civil war people could move and lift massive payloads.  Modern Egyptologists cannot.  The Erie canal lifts payloads higher than the height of the Great Pyramid.  The Erie canal moved the weight of the Great Pyramid in two years.  Water locks operate 24 hours a day.  The unworkable, nonexistent, mythical mega-ramp proposed by Egyptologists could only be used during daylight hours.  Using the powerful, controllable, and fast system of water locks would have made the construction almost effortless and the construction time would be much shorter than using the impossible made-up ramp idea.  Barges were not limited to carrying a single stone so a single barge would have transported several of the rough cut 2 1/2 ton interior stones at once reducing the time scale considerably.

 

We are told the Great Pyramid was built by an army of slaves. I have always wondered if this is the case. Could such a marvel of almost perfect engineering be constructed by forced labour? Surely it would have been an army of very skilled craftsman and engineers. Do you have any thoughts on where the workforce came from? Did they just happen to have an army of engineers and craftsman lying around on the Giza Plateau or did they come from far and wide to pool their resources and skills? Also, do you think the method of construction you describe would have required more or less of a workforce than the method of construction that is accepted by mainstream Egyptology?

My focus is on what the workforce did, not where the workers came from. Certainly there were far fewer workers using water locks than using the unworkable mega-ramp method.  There was no strong backed workers pulling stones up a ramp or knuckle dragging stone draggers.  The nature of the work is beyond the strength of back muscles.  That is why the “science” of Egyptology does not and cannot move stones in the manner they say common workers did all day long.  Obviously the builders of the Great Pyramid were geniuses and the Great Pyramid is stark testimony of their amazing accomplishments.  This is in glaring contrast to Egyptologists abhorrence to providing demonstrations which would substantiate their stories.  If Egyptologists were responsible for building the Great Pyramid, it would have never been built.

 

Much has been written about who commissioned the building of the Pyramid, of course, every school kid is told it was Khufu at some point during the 4th dynasty c. 2580-2560. Other alternative historians have tried to show this is not the case and as far as I am aware the evidence for it construction by Khufu is rather flimsy at best. Who do you think was the builder and is the time frame given for its construction fit with you conclusions? If so what evidence do you have to support this?

Who built the Great Pyramid is a fascinating subject to some researchers but it is beyond the focus of my research.  I know researchers who have focused on this question their entire careers and have made no substantive progress.  Think about it this way.  What if we found out it was a guy named Bob who built the Great Pyramid.  Immediately the next questions are how and why was it built?  When the Great Pyramid was built is also beyond the focus of my research.  I also know researchers who feel this is a very important question and spent their lives to find the answer with no meaningful progress.  The age of the Great Pyramid is under scholarly debate but what if we found out conclusively that it was built at a specific date.  Just for an example, I will pick an arbitrary date of 10,000 B.C.  Immediately the next questions are how and why was it built?  Who built the Great Pyramid and when would tell us very little.  I focus on how and why.

Moving away now from the Great Pyramid construction you claim that you know what its use was. I think its plane to see what its function isn’t, as we know the mainstream will have us believe that it is a tomb and it doesn’t take a professor to see that there is very little evidence for this at all, in fact it is nothing like other tombs found in Egypt, no Hieroglyphics or decorations of any kind except for some later graffiti, no artefacts and of course nobody. Your claim is that it was used as a giant machine perhaps the biggest the world has ever seen. You say that it was used to pump water to irrigate the Giza Plateau and I think you also suggest it could have been used as a sort of power plant to power certain industries. How did you come to these amazing conclusions and what evidence do you have to back them up?

Actually, you can go to any university and you will find professors teaching that the Great Pyramid was a tomb built using a big ramp.  That doesn’t make their interpretation of the direct physical evidence valid.  The Great Pyramid is a big pile of rocks.  It was built at a high cost.  It was an expensive project requiring a huge investment in manpower, resources and time.  Unlike Egyptologists and many other researchers, I feel that the Great Pyramid had a very large Return On Investment.  The high cost of building the Great Pyramid was actually a wise investment.  It was infrastructure for the civilization which built it.  It was a functioning machine that transformed the desert into a garden and transformed poverty into prosperity. It did this by being built to be a massive water pump.

The subterranean chamber and passages carved into solid bedrock, as well as the passages and chamber inside the Great Pyramid structure, are designed and functioned as a large and powerful water pumping system.  How this ancient yet highly technical water pumping system operated is explained in detail in my second book titled: The Great Pyramid Prosperity machine. http://www.amazon.com/dp/1460976118/. The Great Pyramid was a machine that pumped water.  The uses of that pumped water were limitless.  Certainly, the pumped water was used for irrigation, powering machinery, creating a vacuum or compressed air for various purposes or any other number of applications.  Hydroelectric dams generate electricity yet that same electricity is used for many different purposes.  My second book discusses the uses of the pumped water in greater detail than here.

It is fascinating that the largest structure ever built in the valley of the Nile is being used right now for pumping water.  This massive structure is providing prosperity for the people in Egypt right now!  In ancient times a massive water pumping system was built in the valley of the Nile to provide prosperity.  In modern times a massive water pumping system was built in the valley of the Nile to provide prosperity.

 

And what of the other Pyramids in Egypt and indeed across the globe is there any indication that these were used for a similar function?

 

The construction and purpose of the Great Pyramid is the focus of my research.  My research isn’t about whether or not the other pyramids are or are not water pumps.  My research is about how the Great Pyramid water pump was built and why it was built.  That seems fair enough.  There are pyramids around the world with different designs, different qualities of workmanship, use of different construction materials etc.  I do not think that every pyramid on earth was built for the same exact purpose or in the same exact manner.  So if some other pyramid is not a water pump that doesn’t mean that the Great Pyramid is not a water pump.

 

I think I can guess the answer to this next question, but how have your ideas been received by mainstream academics? Have you received much of a backlash, ridicule perhaps? I know they can be steadfast in their absolute denial even when confronted with evidence to show they are incorrect in their beliefs. Denial isn’t just a river in Egypt.

Certainly, there is resistant to the direction of my research and my interpretation of the same direct physical evidence available to everyone.  The resistance is greatest in the realm of academia.  There is politics in the world of academics which makes it highly resistant to change. It has been said, “Academic politics is the most vicious and bitter form of politics because the stakes are so low.”  Any revolutionary idea is opposed by the status quo including the idea of continental drift or penicillin or the right of a woman to vote.  That is the way it is.  But people with a technical background seem to be drawn to my research about the movement and placing of stones and the function of this massive infrastructure.  People who work in shipyards, or who are involved in actually moving heavy objects tell me over and over again how refreshing my research is, and how elegant the construction method seems to be, as well as how this method of construction is consistent with the direct physical evidence.   In contrast, Egyptologists are the most resistant to any change of ideas.  I asked an Egyptologist what was the biggest stone he ever moved and he told me it was the one in his kidney!

Resistant to my ideas, books and research takes other forms as well.  Often times someone demands me to provide proof that validates my research. Here is an interesting thing to consider. In regards to the Great Pyramid there is no proof of anything.  All we have to analyze is the direct physical evidence at the Giza Plateau.  That evidence is interpreted by various authors and researchers providing conflicting interpretations. There is no proof the Great Pyramid was used to entomb a mummy.  There is no proof the Great Pyramid had anything to do with ancient aliens.  There is no proof the Great Pyramid was built to point to something.  There is no proof the Great Pyramid was built to be measured to be understood. There is no proof of a big ramp.   There is only direct physical evidence and the interpretation of direct physical evidence.

If someone agrees with an interpretation then that is considered to be “proof.”  So when someone demands proof they want an interpretation that they already agree with.  Therefore if I don’t provide an interpretation that they already agree with they contend I don’t have proof.  This is nothing more than a debating ploy instead of an open minded analysis of my research.  This debating technique is popular with correlation believers threatened by an alternative explanation of the direct physical evidence. Using this ploy they have an excuse to keep from reading my books or becoming familiar with my direction of research.  People who use this ploy are only cocooning themselves in whatever they already believe and insulating themselves from new understandings. The only insurmountable barrier to truth is the assumption that you already have it.  I also encounter people who what to know what is in my books but do not want to read them.  I am not responsible for the actions or opinions of lazy researchers.  All I ask of people is to become familiar with the contents of my books and ponder the information they contain.

So, in your opinion when and why did this machine fall out of use? And do you think that this could have had something to do with the fall of ancient Egyptian civilisation?

When you say Egyptian civilisation you are address the question of who.  That is beyond the focus of my research.  The Great Pyramid suffered a catastrophic failure. It broke!  There is evidence of the King’s chamber being subject to a expansive force that spread the King’s chamber stones apart and cracked the ceiling stones of this chamber.  I contend that the coffer in this chamber was part of a mechanism that contributed to the function of the Great Pyramid water pump.  This float mechanism kept the proper amount of air and water in the King’s chamber.  When this float mechanism failed it caused the amount of air in this chamber to escape resulting in a powerful hydraulic force which caused the damage in the King’s chamber.  This is described in detail in my second book.

 

I have read that you are critical of the Orion Correlation Theory first put forward by Robert Bauval in ’83 and then expanded upon in a book in the mid ‘90s. For readers who may not know of this Bauval basically suggests that the 3 main pyramids on the Giza an some say other structures are a mirror image of the star constellation of Orion with the 3 pyramids representing Orion’s belt. Why are you critical of this theory, what doesn’t match up for you?

 

Actually the Great Pyramid is the focus of two correlation theories. The first correlation theory which was widely popular a generation ago and still has many followers is the Biblical Correlation Theory (also known as Pyramidology). The Biblical Correlation Theory  compares the Bible with the Great Pyramid and has come up with a vast array of precise correlations between these two things. Essentially people have perceived Bible-Great Pyramid correlations and simply contend that they are valid.  A good example of these perceived correlations without causation is the Bethlehem Angle. This angle bisects Bethlehem which the Bible says is the birthplace of Jesus. Therefore people who believe the Biblical Correlation Theory contend that the Great Pyramid is a “Bible in Stone” that confirms the biblical prophecy of the birthplace of Jesus as well as many other biblical prophecies. That’s nice that people who are devotees of the Biblical Correlation Theory have come up with this and so many other precise correlations, but it’s funny that there is no evidence of causation for that or any other Great Pyramid- Bible correlation.  A correlation without causation is a very common logical fallacy.

The proponents of the Biblical Correlation Theory have also come up with the so-called Pyramid Inch. This made-up unit of measure is used to measure the passageways and chambers deriving innumerable correlations between the features of the Great Pyramid and information in the Bible. Yet again, even though these people come up with correlations that are precise, without causation the correlations are simply logical fallacies. The Internet is full of websites with numerous graphs and charts showing how features of the Great Pyramid coincide with Bible prophecy and other biblical data points but causation is lacking and the Biblical Correlation Theory has lost popularity because of it’s reliance on poor research techniques.

You have asked me several times about evidence and evidence is very important yet there is no feature specific to the Great Pyramid which indicates the original builders intended any relationship between the Great Pyramid and the Bible. By using various logical fallacies such as correlations without causation and cherry picking people have come up with this entire elaborate scenario of the relationship between the Great Pyramid and the Bible. I have issues with that scenario based on their use of flawed research techniques.

There is a science known as Phrenology.  This science is the study of the correlations between the bumps on people’s heads and character traits associated with those bumps. Phrenology is in essence a “correlation theory.”  I call Phrenology the Bump Correlation Theory.  Yet this interpretation of evidence has lost favor and in fact has been rejected for a very specific reason. That reason is there is no evidence that would suggest that there is a correlation between the bumps on a person’s head and their character traits. There is no causation for the bump correlations.  Phrenology is based on logical fallacies!!  Phrenology, (the Bump Correlation Theory) is a failed correlation theory and is not taught in colleges anymore because it could not withstand the rigors of the Scientific Method or of legitimate academic research techniques. Because of the flawed research techniques, I certainly have a justified issue with the validity of the correlation theory known as Phrenology.

Although the Biblical Correlation Theory has lost favor because of its flawed research methods, the Great Pyramid is now the focus of yet another correlation theory.   Currently there is a 2nd correlation theory involving the Great Pyramid that is now en vogue. It is known under a number of different names with slight variations attributed to different researchers but most commonly it is referred to as the Orion Correlation Theory. This theory also uses research techniques that are rather dubious and questionable. For example the vents of the Great Pyramid at one time pointed towards some specific stars. That is a correlation yet lacks any type of corroboration by a piece of evidence specific to the Great Pyramid.  The contention is that the vents at one time pointed towards stars which are considered to be significant. There is no evidence specific to the Great Pyramid  to indicate the original builders intended that correlation to have any significance. People just want to believe the vent – star correlation is significant just as other people wanted to believe the Bethlehem Angle was significant.

One could interpret that same evidence many different ways. One could say that because the vents don’t point to those stars now the correlation must have been temporary and now null and void. The builders told us this in a profoundly symbolic way that we just made up.  Or one could interpret the same evidence by saying the original builders intended to vents to point to stars that the vents are actually pointing to now. The stars the vents are in correlation with now are the stars they were intended to be in correlation with.  Another interpretation of the same evidence is that the original builders wanted to tell us the Great Pyramid has nothing to do with Orion because the vents don’t point to Orion. Without any causation for the correlation, people can make up any interpretation they want and that is what has happened.   There is no evidence specific to the Great Pyramid indicating the builders intended any correlation between stars and the Great Pyramid.

Just because someone perceives a correlation doesn’t mean that the correlation was intended to have any significance.  In contrast to the Orion Correlation Theory in the realm of legitimate academic research, a correlation does not even IMPY a causation.  What is important is to understand the actual intent of the original builders, not just make up stuff about correlations that cannot be corroborated with causation using relevant evidence.  It is interesting to note that correlations are not evidence.  Correlations are only an interpretation of evidence.  If correlations were evidence, people believing the Orion Correlation Theory would have to believe the Great Pyramid – Bible correlations but they don’t.  People who believe the Orion Correlation Theory embrace the precise correlations they like and reject the precise correlations they don’t like.  The research methods are very muddled to say the least resulting in very muddled conclusions.

It’s interesting to note there is no feature specific to the Great Pyramid which indicates the original builders intended any relationship between the Great Pyramid and Orion.  There is no feature specific to the Great Pyramid which indicates the original builders intended any relationship between the Great Pyramid and the Book of the Dead or the Pyramid Texts.  There is no feature specific to the Great Pyramid which indicates the original builders intended any relationship between the Great Pyramid and symbolism, religion or to point to something.  There is no feature specific to the Great Pyramid which indicates the original builders intended the Great Pyramid to be measured to be understood.  These are all just correlations without causation that are ascribed meaning and significance by modern people with too much time on their hands instead of using causation for validation.

My issue with the Biblical Correlation Theory (Pyramidology), the Bump Correlation Theory (Phrenology), as well as the Orion Correlation Theory is the same. My reservations about all three correlation theories is with issues concerning the common poor research techniques used in all three theories. Using the logical fallacy of cherry picking they can pull out of a hat any information that they compare to something else and then just contend a correlation was intended to be significant to the original builders without the needed evidence in the form of causation to provide validation.  This makes the Orion Correlation Theory the most gargantuan cherry picking scenario ever conceived in the history of human thought.  They can use any unit of measure or any data point from anything and compare that to anything else and the result is a correlation without causation that is declared to be valid.

It is the nature of correlation theories, like the three correlation theories that I’ve mentioned, to become wildly popular and then ultimately lose favor because people come to understand that “correlation theories” are based on flawed research techniques. Ultimately the Orion Correlation Theory or whatever you want to call it will become yet another failed correlation theory because of its reliance on logical fallacies instead of legitimate academic research techniques. I am already against the next Great Pyramid correlation theory.

To be honest, I have a difficult time trying to be in a conversation with someone who believes these Great Pyramid correlations. I asked them questions like: Can a precise Great Pyramid correlation be invalid? If so what is the criteria to determine that? Or I ask: Can a precise Great Pyramid correlation be determined to be valid? If so what is the procedure (research technique) used do that? No coherent answers are forthcoming. When you talk to someone who thinks that precision or math validates a correlation then you know you’re talking to someone who relies heavily on logical fallacies.

I often ask them about the precise correlation between Pirates and Global Warming. Yes there is such a thing. There is a correlation that is very precise between the number of pirates and global warming. This correlation is discussed on many websites, books and magazine articles. This important correlation is instructive because it is a mathematically precise correlation yet it has no causation. That makes it a false correlation.

So how can people believe a Great Pyramid correlation without causation is valid because it is precise, yet reject the Pirate – Global Warming correlation even though it is also precise? It just shows an inconsistency in their research methods and highlights just one of the logical fallacies pivotal to the Orion Correlation Theory.

Proponents of the Orion Correlation Theory or of any Great Pyramid correlation theory rely heavily on math. In the Pirate – Global Warming correlation without causation the math is impeccable yet because there is no causal relationship between Pirates and Global Warming the correlation is still false regardless of the precise math inherent in this correlation.  People who say that math or precision validate a correlation and then reject a correlation that is mathematically precise are demonstrating their use of poor research techniques.

People who decide to simply believe correlations that someone has come up with will often say that statistically there so many correlations that it can’t be coincidence and therefore the correlations must all be true. That is another example of very poor research techniques. That is like saying many false correlations validate many false correlations. The Biblical Correlation Theory has more correlations then the Orion Correlation theory.  Does that mean the Biblical Correlation Theory is statistically more valid than the Orion Correlation Theory? I get no coherent answer to that question.  So again it is the issue of poor research techniques used by the Orion Correlation Theory and other correlation theories which cause me to reject the results of their flawed research methods.

 

You say the technology that is the Great Pyramid can have positive implications for mankind in a modern age and indeed could save us from our addiction to oil. How is this so and what message would you like to get out there?

I contend that the Great Pyramid is a structure that embodies a number of very high technologies.  Precision stone cutting on a large scale, an extremely strong bonding agent, and the transportation of heavy payloads are high technologies associated with the Great Pyramid.  But the primary high technology associated with the Great Pyramid is the efficient, environmentally friendly water pumping technology.  We have started a non-profit foundation dedicated to understanding how and why the Great Pyramid was built and redeveloping the ancient high technicalities associated with the Great Pyramid to help our modern but very troubled world.  This water pumping technology will be an alternative to nuclear power plants and electrical generation using fossil fuels. Our non-profit foundation’s website is at: http://www.thepump.org.  Our current fundraising campaign is for a 3D printer to be used at our research facility.  We are about half way to our goal using croudfunding and here is the link. https://www.gofundme.com/3D-Printer-for-Nonprofit?utm_medium=wdgt

Finally, what’s next for your research? You have two excellent books out that can be found on Amazon as well as a website detailing your work. Do you have any future publications planned?

There is a lot going on.  In addition to the two books available in softcover or Kindle EBook format we have also produced a DVD documentary about how the Great Pyramid was built using water locks and barges.  Here is the link: https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01HR00JQ0/.  We are producing our 2nd DVD documentary about how the Great Pyramid operated as a water pump.  That documentary is currently in production and we hope to have it finished in about eight months from now.

I have written numerous magazine articles and have been interviewed on seemingly countless radio shows.  If someone out there is interested in having me as a guest they can contact me through our foundation’s web site.  Please like us on Facebook. https://www.facebook.com/StevenMyersAuthor

 

Well Steven I’d like to thank you on behalf of us all here at The Curious Fortean for so kindly take the time to talk with us and enthralling us with your work, we are honoured that you agreed to speak with us.

You are welcome. It was my honour and privilege.

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